Amy Sebring: Welcome to the EIIP Virtual Classroom! Amy Sebring: For the benefit of any first-timers, when you see a blue web address, you can click on it and the referenced Web page should appear in a browser window. Amy Sebring: After the first one, the browser window may not automatically come to the top, so you may need to bring it forward by clicking on a button at the status bar at the bottom of your screen. Then you will need to bring your chat window back to the top in the same way. Amy Sebring: We will start with a presentation, and then follow with a Q&A session for your questions and comments. Right before we begin the Q&A portion we will review the procedure. Amy Sebring: Please do NOT send direct messages to the speaker or moderator as it makes it difficult for us to follow the discussion. Amy Sebring: If you have any announcements about any events or projects your are working on, please hold them to the end. Amy Sebring: Background information for today's session may be found at http://www.emforum.org/vclass/000419.htm ... Amy Sebring: Today's session is part of our intermittently continuing Hazard Series, where we present a hazard-specific topic as a learning opportunity. Our focus today is on dams and the National Dam Safety Program. Amy Sebring: We are honored to have Mr. Donald Bathurst, the Director of the Office of National Dam Safety, FEMA Mitigation Directorate, with us today to present an overview and answer your questions. Amy Sebring: Mr. Bathurst holds a Bachelor of Science in Fire Protection Engineering from the University of Maryland and a Master of Public Administration from The American University, and previously served as the Deputy U.S. Fire Administrator, FEMA USFA. Amy Sebring: Welcome Don, and thank you for taking the time to be with us today. Don Bathurst: Thank you Amy. I am joined in my office today by Rita Henry and Fay Davis, with the Office of National Dam Safety, here at FEMA. Don Bathurst: The purpose of the National Dam Safety Program, codified in 1996 through Section 215 of the Water Resources Development Act (PL 104-303), is to "reduce the risks to life and property from dam failure in the United States through the establishment and maintenance of an effective national dam safety program to bring together the expertise and resources of the Federal and non-Federal communities in achieving national dam safety hazard reduction." Don Bathurst: Slide 1, please. Amy Sebring: http://www.emforum.org/vclass/DAM/Slide01.htm Don Bathurst: The objectives of the act are shown on the following slides. (Amy, Slides 2 and 3, please.) Amy Sebring: http://www.emforum.org/vclass/DAM/Slide02.htm Amy Sebring: http://www.emforum.org/vclass/DAM/Slide03.htm Don Bathurst: The Director of FEMA, James Lee Witt, has elevated the program, providing more emphasis and visibility, where it reports directly to the Associate Director for Mitigation, Mike Armstrong. Don Bathurst: Central to the program are the concepts of cooperation and partnership. Don Bathurst: In response to the legislation, the National Dam Safety Program is shifting from oversight of Federal activities, to proactively coordinating and ensuring the cooperation of Federal and State partners in providing cutting edge engineering and emergency preparedness support. Don Bathurst: Amy, slide 4, please. Amy Sebring: http://www.emforum.org/vclass/DAM/Slide04.htm Don Bathurst: This shows how the coordination of Federal activities, State activities and those of the engineering community is central to the Program. Don Bathurst: Also, notice that stakeholders cut across all activities. These include Congress, governors, mayors, and everyone affected by a dam. Don Bathurst: Much is known about dams, but much is yet to be known. There are more than 75,000 dams nationwide. Don Bathurst: These are classified as high (potential loss of life), significant (potential economic or environmental loss), or low (negligible loss) hazard potential. Don Bathurst: This is only based on hazard and does not give a clear picture of the risk of failure. Don Bathurst: Hazard is independent of the condition of the dam and only represents the potential consequence of failure relative to loss of life and property damage! Don Bathurst: In many respects, the hazard associated with a dam can be proportionate to the benefits derived from it. Don Bathurst: For example, a high hazard potential hydroelectric dam or water supply (a very high one with a large reservoir) can generate a lot of electricity or provide a lot of retained water supply. Don Bathurst: Developing and collecting this information will be a priority so that Federal, State and local officials, as well as dam owners and affected property owners will have sufficient information to make rational decisions. Don Bathurst: In the case of high and significant hazard potential dams, we have a program for the development and coordination of Emergency Action Plans. These provide a detailed plan of action to alert, mitigate, and if necessary, evacuate areas around a dam in the event of a problem. Don Bathurst: Currently, only about 30 percent of dams required to have EAPs actually have them. Don Bathurst: In addition, according to a recent report by the American Society of Civil Engineers, 35 percent of the 9,200 regulated High Hazard dams have not been inspected since before 1990 (where they should be inspected at least every 5 years). Don Bathurst: The State assistance program is intended to help States bring the necessary resources to bear on inspection, classification, and emergency planning for dam safety. Don Bathurst: The research and training programs are intended to keep State dam safety officials current with state-of-the-art technology and engineering approaches to inspection, rehabilitation, and hazard mitigation actions. Don Bathurst: The Dam Safety Program has other very important features. Don Bathurst: First is the National Dam Safety Review Board. Made up of Federal, State and private technical experts and chaired by the Associate Director for Mitigation, this board provides the FEMA Director advice on all matters and serves to help oversee the development and support of State dam safety programs. (Slide 5, please.) Amy Sebring: http://www.emforum.org/vclass/DAM/Slide05.htm Don Bathurst: In addition, the National Dam Safety Program brings together all Federal Agencies involved in the design, construction, operation or regulation of dams through the Interagency Committee on Dam Safety (ICODS). (Slide 6, please.) Amy Sebring: http://www.emforum.org/vclass/DAM/Slide06.htm Don Bathurst: This committee performs its important functions through a series of subcommittees to coordinate and share information so as to eliminate duplication of efforts and leverage scarce Federal resources while providing consistent guidance and developing new approaches to dam safety. Don Bathurst: Amy, Slide 7 please. Amy Sebring: http://www.emforum.org/vclass/DAM/Slide07.htm Don Bathurst: The National Program has three major foci: Don Bathurst: 1) coordination of Federal programs so that States and dam owners see similar requirements and treatment, Don Bathurst: 2) coordination and support of State Programs for consistency in safety provided to citizens, and Don Bathurst: 3) coordination of development of emergency management functions, especially Emergency Action Plans for High and Significant Hazard Potential dams. Don Bathurst: The national Program embraces the following values ... (Slide 8, please) Amy Sebring: http://www.emforum.org/vclass/DAM/Slide08.htm Don Bathurst: and is striving to outreach and expand communications with the following stakeholders... (Slide 9, please.) Amy Sebring: http://www.emforum.org/vclass/DAM/Slide09.htm Don Bathurst: Using a strategic approaches...(Slide 10, please.) Amy Sebring: http://www.emforum.org/vclass/DAM/Slide10.htm Don Bathurst: The National Dam Safety Program priorities include... Don Bathurst: development and use of risk management techniques to classify and prioritize conditions of dams... Don Bathurst: emphasis on accurate reporting of dam incidents to better document failure modes and research and training needs... Don Bathurst: integration of the program with other FEMA programs, especially Project Impact... Don Bathurst: expanded outreach to share information with a wide array of stakeholder such as emergency management and floodplain managers as well as the general public... Don Bathurst: development of an ongoing technical training and public education program that can be delivered through multiple outlets at multiple levels. Don Bathurst: Amy, Slide 11, please. Amy Sebring: http://www.emforum.org/vclass/DAM/Slide11.htm Don Bathurst: The program implementation plan was developed in 1997 and is on track through the variety of new program initiatives. Don Bathurst: FEMA takes its dam safety role seriously, as evidenced by the actions over the past years. Don Bathurst: We are emphasizing public awareness this year with a National Dam Safety Day on May 31 (or possibly June 1), the anniversary of the Johnstown Flood, which was the result of a catastrophic dam failure. For more information, please visit our web site at http://www.fema.gov/mit/ndspweb.htm Don Bathurst: With the new legislative authorization and the support and commitment of Director Witt, the program will provide the necessary leadership and coordination at the Federal level, to ensure better safety of citizens who live, work, play or receive some other benefit from dams - that is, every citizen. Don Bathurst: I will now take any questions anyone may have. Amy Sebring: Thank you for that overview Don. We can get into some more detail in response to questions. Amy Sebring: Audience please enter a question mark (?) to indicate you wish to be recognized, go ahead and compose your comment or question, but wait for recognition before hitting the enter key or clicking on Send. Amy Sebring: We now invite your questions/comments. carl sexton: ? Amy Sebring: Carl please. When you are ready. Daryl Spiewak: ? David Crews: ? carl sexton: Are there any fines or other legal actions for those without emergency plans? Rick Tobin: ? Don Bathurst: That would vary on a State by state basis... Don Bathurst: different States have differing authorities... Don Bathurst: In fact, some States cannot require or follow up on the development of EAPs... Don Bathurst: however, hydroelectric projects are licensed by the Federal energy regulatory Commission... Don Bathurst: and must maintain and exercise such plans on a regular basis as a condition of licensure. Amy Sebring: Daryl next please. Daryl Spiewak: What is FEMA, or the Federal government going to do about those owners of high hazard dams who do not yet have EAPs? Will you force the states to enforce the rules/requirements? Don Bathurst: FEMA does not have the authority to force the States to take action... Don Bathurst: however, we are working with the Association of State Dam Safety Officials and provide information to the Governors on a regular basis... Don Bathurst: Our hope and aim is that that when presented with the appropriate information, States will take appropriate actions... Don Bathurst: this will certainly take some time... Don Bathurst: but taking informed action tends to inculcate the desired action, rather than forcing people to do something. Amy Sebring: David next please. Daryl Spiewak: Also, will FEMA be using Project Impact to help owners develop EAPs? Amy Sebring: Lets come back to that one Daryl. David Crews: What role does Dam Safety play from the National level on dam placement/location, construction and inspection policy? Don Bathurst: We are working with the States, planners, floodplain managers, the flood insurance program and others... Don Bathurst: to get information circulated more widely about the impacts of dams and the safety considerations... Don Bathurst: so that all this information can be taken into account in land use planning and development processes. Don Bathurst: With regard to Daryl's Q... Don Bathurst: we are working through the FEMA regional offices to help Project Impact communities assess all their risks... Don Bathurst: Including those associated with dams... Don Bathurst: and to take appropriate engineering or emergency planning action... Don Bathurst: We have had quite some success already. Amy Sebring: Rick next please. Rick Tobin: I've worked with water agencies involved with dam exercises. I have several concerns. First, the "downstreamer" population base changes so often that it is hard to measure if they understand the risks. Second, the warning systems for dam failure are sorely inadequate, and are not being properly coordinated with public education and EAS. Third, the status of many older, smaller rural dams is very disconcerting. Like many other infrastructures, e.g. bridges and roads, they are deteriorating. Don Bathurst: Rick's concerns are on target... Jim Sells: ? Don Bathurst: What we have found is that dam safety has been a very technical application within the dam safety community... Don Bathurst: We are actively working to encourage and involve all stakeholders, so that more people will understand these concerns and do what is necessary to address them. Amy Sebring: Jim next please. Amy Sebring: ? Jim Sells: When/how do the local/rural dams fit into this picture? How can we find out more? Don Bathurst: More than 90% of the dams in this country fall under State regulation... Don Bathurst: most of these are smaller, rural dams... Don Bathurst: They are an important consideration, because when built many were "in the middle of nowhere"... Don Bathurst: but now are in the middle of development... Don Bathurst: so, they were built to a standard that was expectant of not much to be damaged, ... Don Bathurst: but now must be upgraded to protect property and lives in case of a failure... Don Bathurst: specific information should be available from your State dam safety official... Don Bathurst: You can get information on who and where they are from the ASDSO web site, http://www.damsafety.org Amy Sebring: How actively are state Emergency Management agencies involved with this issue? Don Bathurst: More now than a year ago, but not as much as we hope a year from now... Rick Tobin: ? Don Bathurst: One of the items we found with the new emphasis on the program, was that there was a disconnect in may of the States between dam safety and emergency management... Don Bathurst: We are continually working to foster and develop these new partnerships! Amy Sebring: Rick please. Rick Tobin: We often do a trivia test here......anyone know the second largest loss of lives in California due to a natural disaster? Quake? No. Fire? No. The St. Francis dam failure in the 1920's. Rick Tobin: But most Californians don't even think about that. Similar problem all over the US. Rick Tobin: So, how do we meet awareness and not strike fear? Don Bathurst: Also, don't forget that the Johnstown flood in 1898, was the result of a dam failure! Don Bathurst: We need to present information in a factual and non emotional way... David Crews: ? Don Bathurst: key is to show that through proper planning, development, engineering, operations and maintenance... Don Bathurst: and emergency planning as necessary... Don Bathurst: that people can affect their risk exposure in a positive way... Don Bathurst: This is true of dam safety as well as exposures to other hazards... Don Bathurst: this is of course the central theme and message of our Project Impact initiative, Building Disaster Resistant Communities. Amy Sebring: David next please. Amy Sebring: ? David Crews: The reason I asked about a National Policy is that we have policy in place for flooding. With dam failure there are Emergency Responses, legal and liability issues that could have consequences on a national level no matter who owns the dam. Don Bathurst: That is true... Don Bathurst: dam failure, jut like floods in general, do not respect political boundaries... Don Bathurst: however, it is important that States and local jurisdictions take responsibility for their actions... Kathleen Talbott: ? Don Bathurst: so we have an approach to communicate risk information in a way to maintain accountability where actions can be taken. Amy Sebring: Don, what does your risk analysis thus far say about how this hazard will continue or grow in the future due to our aging infrastructure? Don Bathurst: Intuition tells us that dams if allowed to deteriorate can cause much damage... Don Bathurst: The larger dams, and those under Federal regulation are maintained and upgraded pretty well... Don Bathurst: one concern is that we do not have a good handle on the risk exposure... Don Bathurst: the hazard potential classification system really classifies the potential consequences... Don Bathurst: it does not describe the condition or probability of failure... Avagene Moore: ? Don Bathurst: We are working with the States and Federal agencies to develop a simple analysis template that could communicate more of this information. Amy Sebring: Kathleen next please. Kathleen Talbott: Our Emergency Management office here in Montgomery County is very active in securing EAPs, but we do not have the manpower to inspect our older dams to ensure that they are safe. Does the Federal Government have any grants monies available so we might hire a contractor to inspect the dams in our County? Any private grant monies available that you know about? Don Bathurst: The National Dam safety Program does have a grant program but it is for State programs... Don Bathurst: I would suggest that you contact Brad Iarossi if you have a specific activity or project in mind to see how it might fit with the State plans. Amy Sebring: Avagene, final question please. Avagene Moore: Don, does the FEMA Dam Safety Program interact with international counterparts? If so, what is learned there? Do other countries put more emphasis on awareness, maintenance and planning re: dams? Don Bathurst: We have been focusing on the U.S. situation right now... Don Bathurst: The private sector engineering community is working with their counterparts in other countries.. Don Bathurst: but we have not been actively working that angle... Don Bathurst: This is mostly due to limited resources being applied on a priority basis... Don Bathurst: However, we have been working with the State Department and the International Joint Commission... Don Bathurst: on issues of dam safety along the Canadian border... Don Bathurst: We, in the US, are in pretty good shape... Don Bathurst: but the International Joint Commission has some concerns with our neighbors to the North. Stuart Reynolds: The Province of BC has a Dam Safety Program and has just passed specific Dam Safety Regulations Don Bathurst: Some of that I believe is in response to the concerns of the IJC commissioner who is from BC. Amy Sebring: Thank you very much for being with us today Don. I hope your event in May will be successful in raising awareness of this issue. Can you put up your email address for any follow up? Don Bathurst: Follow up questions or issues can be posted on the FEMA web site ( http://www.fema.gov ), directed to the attention of dam safety. Amy Sebring: Thank you. Please stand by a moment if you can while we take care of some announcements. Amy Sebring: Avagene, can you tell us what's on for next week please? Avagene Moore: Yes, Amy, thank you. And my personal thanks to you, Don, for a most informative presentation. I am sure our audience appreciates the information as well. Avagene Moore: Next week, Wednesday April 26, 12:00 Noon EDT, we will feature Ann Willis, George Washington University (GWU), as she presents her research and findings based on "Technology in EM." Avagene Moore: Block off an hour for this dialogue in the Tech Arena next week. That's all for now, Amy. Amy Sebring: Thank you Ava. If there are any announcements from the floor, please pop them in now. Amy Sebring: Thanks to all our participants today. We will adjourn the session for now, but you are welcome to remain for open discussion. You no longer need to use question marks.