12:06:31 PM Avagene Moore:Welcome to the EIIP Virtual Forum! ... 12:06:41 PM Avagene Moore:We are pleased to have experts on urban search and rescue with us today to talk about "Urban Search and Rescue (USAR) Teams: An Increasingly Important Response Capability? " ... 12:06:50 PM Avagene Moore:We feel this topic should be discussed because of the number of disasters we continue to have plus increased tensions in the world. ... 12:07:02 PM Avagene Moore:Please note that URLs given are hot links and you can pull them up in your browser window if you like. ... 12:07:14 PM Avagene Moore:When our formal part of today's session is complete, we will give brief instructions on submitting questions for the Q&A part of our online discussion. ... 12:07:36 PM Avagene Moore:And now to our introductions .. 12:07:48 PM Avagene Moore:We regret that Mark Russo, FEMA Program Manager, National US&R Response System, can not be with us today; Mark and the majority of the R&R staff are responding to Hurricane Georges and are enroute to Florida. ... 12:08:07 PM Avagene Moore:However, we have two distinguished speakers with us --- Fred Krimgold and Dewey Perks. ... 12:08:20 PM Avagene Moore:Actually, Dewey is involved in deployment of forces... 12:08:34 PM Avagene Moore:I will speak for Mr Perks at the appropriate time.. 12:08:48 PM Avagene Moore:Fred is the Director of the Center for Building Health and Safety at Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University. Fred has extensive experience in development, research and education, domestically and internationally. ... 12:09:03 PM Avagene Moore:Dewey is Project Officer in the Special Programs Section of the National Association for Search and Rescue (NASAR); Dewey is also a 27-year veteran of the Fairfax County, Virginia Fire and Rescue Department and serves 12:09:18 PM Avagene Moore:as a Task Force Leader for its urban search and rescue team, Virginia Task Force 1. ... 12:09:29 PM Avagene Moore:In the absence of our FEMA spokesperson today, I will overview the National Urban Search and Research (US&R) Response System as background for our speakers. ... 12:09:56 PM Avagene Moore:The National US&R Response System.... 12:10:06 PM Avagene Moore:was established under the authority of FEMA in 1989. The US&R System is a framework for structuring local emergency services personnel into integrated disaster response task forces. ... 12:10:20 PM Avagene Moore:These trained and equipped task forces can be deployed by FEMA for the rescue of victims of structural collapse. ... 12:10:32 PM Avagene Moore:When the federal government mobilizes resources and conducts activities to support state and local response efforts, it does so under 12 Emergency Support Functions (ESFs). ... 12:10:54 PM Avagene Moore:Each ESF ... 12:11:03 PM Avagene Moore:is lead by a primary agency, that has been selected based on its authorities, resources and capabilities in a particular functional area. ... 12:11:12 PM Avagene Moore:FEMA is the primary agency for ESF-9, Urban Search and Rescue. ... 12:11:21 PM Avagene Moore:http://www.fema.gov/r-n-r/fed1.htm ... 12:11:31 PM Avagene Moore:A FEMA US&R Task Force is comprised of 62 specialists, and is divided into four major functional elements: Search, Rescue, Technical, and Medical. ... 12:11:49 PM Avagene Moore:Task Force members include structural engineers and specialists in the areas of hazardous materials, heavy rigging, search (including highly trained search dogs), logistics, rescue and medicine. ... 12:11:59 PM Avagene Moore:By design, there are two task force members assigned to each position for the rotation and relief of personnel. This allows for round-the-clock task force operations. 12:12:11 PM Avagene Moore:Currently, there are 27 FEMA US&R Task Forces spread throughout the continental US trained and equipped by FEMA to handle structural collapse. ... 12:12:22 PM Avagene Moore:They encompass local emergency services personnel from 18 states. Any task force can be deployed by FEMA to a major area disaster and provide assistance in the areas of structural rescue. ... 12:12:31 PM Avagene Moore:http://www.fema.gov/r-n-r/usrtask.htm ... 12:12:48 PM Avagene Moore:And now I will turn the floor to Amy. 12:13:05 PM Amy Sebring:And now we turn to our guest speakers --- my first question are to Fred Krimgold, Virginia Tech ... 12:13:14 PM Amy Sebring:Fred, please tell us why and how you became involved in USAR? 12:14:02 PM fkrimgold:I am an architect concerned with building in Seismic areas... 12:14:23 PM dewey perks:Welcome, Dewey is back on line 12:15:04 PM Amy Sebring:(please continue Fred) 12:15:05 PM fkrimgold:We really needed to know more detail about the actual mechanisms of injury and fatality in building failure... 12:15:52 PM fkrimgold:The only way to study the interaction of buildings and victims was to be there at the time of rescue... 12:16:21 PM dewey perks:Hi, this is Dewey Perks, sorry I dropped off, but thisngs are a little hectic here right now with the storm approaching Florida 12:16:21 PM fkrimgold:That meant contributing to the rescue operation. 12:16:38 PM Amy Sebring:Pls stand by dewey. 12:16:46 PM Amy Sebring:Fred, I understand you have experience in the field with search and rescue (S&R) teams; how did the first-hand experience benefit you and your research? 12:17:51 PM fkrimgold:I started with a detailed study of the Mexico City response then worked with the OFDA team that went to Armenia... 12:18:45 PM fkrimgold:I've since been on deployments to the Philippines and domestic earthquakes... 12:20:18 PM fkrimgold:We have learned a great deal about the specific reasons for death and injury. For example, many victims die of suffocation from the dust of collapsing buildings... 12:21:09 PM fkrimgold:We have also learned about the characteristica of populations at risk. 12:21:30 PM Amy Sebring:In your opinion, what element of the S&R process is still most in need of research? 12:21:37 PM fkrimgold:Sorry for the poor typing. 12:21:51 PM Amy Sebring:That's OK Fred, please continue. 12:22:37 PM fkrimgold:At this point, the search area is most in need of development ... 12:23:51 PM fkrimgold:Dogs are amazing but, we need to expand our capasity for location and assessment of traped victims. You can't save them if you can't find them. 12:24:01 PM Amy Sebring:Has there been a cost/benefit analysis of urban search & rescue? 12:26:42 PM fkrimgold:Not formally, USAR is very expensive in terms of lives saved! It would be very difficult to defend USAR on a cost basis. The success rate is very low. We must do it and we must do it as well as possible but response should never compete with mitigation . 12:27:21 PM Amy Sebring:Thank you, Fred, for your insight into this topic. 12:27:35 PM Amy Sebring:Our next questions go to Dewey Perks, NASAR and Rep of Fairfax County, VA Task Force #1 who has rejoined us. 12:27:46 PM Amy Sebring:Dewey, please tell us about the National Association of Search and Rescue (NASAR), its purpose, goals, and membership. 12:28:00 PM dewey perks:NASAR is a membership association comprised of thousands of dedicated career and non-paid professionals-all active or interested in search and rescue, disaster aid, emergency medicine, and awareness education. 12:28:27 PM Amy Sebring:How are NASAR and the US&R Task Forces related? 12:29:01 PM dewey perks:That's a good question. NASAR has enjoyed a long relationship in the development of Urban Search and Rescue (US&R) Task Forces. Our Special Program Manager, Chuck Mills, is an internationally known subject matter expert in US&R system development, deployment, and training. 12:30:17 PM dewey perks:Mr. Mills' last assignment with the federal government was with the State Department's Office of Foreign Disaster Assistance (OFDA). While there, he was instrumental in the early development of US&R in the international arena and drawing Fairfax County into play. 12:30:37 PM dewey perks:This involvement led to the deployment of US Teams from Metro-Dade County, FLA and Fairfax County, VA to earthquakes in Armenia (1988) and the Phillipines (1990). 12:32:39 PM dewey perks:I hope this answered your questions ? 12:32:50 PM Amy Sebring:How much training is involved in being a member of a US&R Task Force? 12:33:15 PM dewey perks:The training required to become a FEMA US&R member is never ending. One must first recall the premise behind the development of a US&R TAsk Force-being better able to mitigate a large scale urban disaster in the Sponsoring Organization's area of control. 12:33:54 PM dewey perks:With that in mind, it is easy to relate the thought that all training is then relative, you just need to gear it toward doing in the dark, in a decimated community, and be prepared to do it 20-30 feet underground! 12:34:36 PM dewey perks:Many of the techniques of shoring, lifting, or breaking steel re-inforced concrete come from the construction industry and the US Army Corps of Engineers. Technical Search techniques using canine or electronic equipment has evolved from the European continent, while treating the victims of crush injury syndrome have been advanced here at home. 12:34:36 PM Amy Sebring:Do they drill on a regular basis? 12:35:25 PM dewey perks:The frequency of the training depends on the team. Some teams train weekly, some monthly and others only 2 or 3 times a year 12:35:38 PM Amy Sebring:When and where has the Virginia USAR Task Force been deployed? 12:35:56 PM Amy Sebring:besides those locations you have already mentioned. 12:36:01 PM dewey perks:Thank you for asking. The Fairfax County Fire and Rescue Department first developed a US&R asset within our Department during the late 1970 building boom. We became first involved in going outside our county assisting with numerous technical rescues in surrounding jurisdictions. 12:36:37 PM dewey perks:Besides Armenia and the Phillipines, Virginia Task Force 1 has been activated for FEMA responses to Hurricane Emily, Oklahoma City, the Northridge earthquake, the Atlanta Olympic Standby, and most recently the State Department deployment to the bombing in Nairobi, Kenya. 12:36:49 PM dewey perks:..... 12:37:43 PM dewey perks:(....) 12:38:04 PM Amy Sebring:How is the Task Force motivated and kept at top form between activations? 12:38:53 PM dewey perks:That is a question that we as managers ask ourselves nearly every day. Recruitment retention of Task Force members is a high priority throught out the National Response System. 12:38:58 PM Kevin Farrell:? 12:39:01 PM Amy Sebring:Thank you Dewey... 12:39:09 PM Amy Sebring:before we get to our audience questions... 12:39:24 PM Amy Sebring:I would like both Fred and Dewey to address our theme topic... 12:39:28 PM dewey perks:Thank you very much..... 12:39:37 PM Amy Sebring:that is, do you feel that Urban Search and Rescue... 12:39:48 PM Amy Sebring:will be increasingly important in the years ahead... 12:40:09 PM Amy Sebring:with increasing world tensions and continuing severe natural disasters? 12:40:14 PM Amy Sebring:Fred? 12:40:46 PM dewey perks:Sorrry to leave the forum, but I must get back on the phone .... 12:40:50 PM Amy Sebring:While Fred is typing... 12:40:57 PM Amy Sebring:ok Dewey, thank you very much. 12:41:18 PM Amy Sebring:we will review the procedure for Q&A. 12:41:39 PM Amy Sebring:Please submit a question mark (?) to indicate you have a question or comment; wait for recognition from the moderator before sending your question to our remaining speaker! 12:41:52 PM Amy Sebring:Please go ahead Fred. 12:42:02 PM fkrimgold:Yes, I am afraid so. We have a large and unfortunately increasing stock of hazaardous buildings in the world. Until we begin to get control of building quality and location we will need US&R. 12:42:27 PM Amy Sebring:Kevin please. 12:42:39 PM Kevin Farrell:Just a comment Amy.... 12:42:55 PM Kevin Farrell:on where the task force members come from... 12:43:30 PM Kevin Farrell:Most of them are active duty rescue personnel who work in the technical rescue field everyday... 12:44:04 PM Kevin Farrell:The task forces are comprised of specially trained people from many departments.... 12:44:35 PM Kevin Farrell:and as such, their training is ongoing and practices in the field everyday. 12:44:48 PM Amy Sebring:Thank you Kevin. 12:44:57 PM Kevin Farrell:practiced that is. 12:45:09 PM Amy Sebring:We also invite anyone else in our audience to contribute their knowledge. 12:45:21 PM Avagene Moore:? 12:45:26 PM Amy Sebring:Avagene. 12:45:39 PM Avagene Moore:Fred, I know you served on a USAR team... 12:46:04 PM Avagene Moore:What kind of retention problems do the teams have? Or is there a problem in that arena? 12:46:28 PM fkrimgold:That is important,. Local organizations ar on the job constantly. Federal of international mobiloization only happens from time to time. This is a very good example of intergovernmental cooperation. 12:46:38 PM Isabel McCurdy:? 12:47:33 PM Avagene Moore:Go ahead, Isabel. (Amy may be having a problem.) 12:47:36 PM Isabel McCurdy:Is suffocation from dust the cause of death more prevalent in the countries that aren't industralized? 12:48:24 PM fkrimgold:It is the case in both adobe and in reinforced concrete so it happens everywhere. 12:48:45 PM Gil Gibbs:? 12:48:54 PM Amy Sebring:Yes Gilbert. 12:49:12 PM Gil Gibbs:It flashed in my mind about earthquakes...?? 12:49:39 PM Amy Sebring:What about earthquakes Gil? 12:50:41 PM Amy Sebring:Fred, are there international agreements that pertain to this? Under what framework do international deployments occur? 12:50:54 PM Gil Gibbs:Adobe and other earthen structures are quite common, as Isabel noted, so it only follows that those countries would have big prboems, but are there figures kept? 12:51:22 PM JD Anderson:? 12:51:33 PM Kevin Farrell:? 12:51:47 PM Isabel McCurdy:? 12:52:26 PM Amy Sebring:I think we have 2 questions outstanding... 12:53:38 PM Amy Sebring:and I have understood Fred's remarks to mean that both industrialized and non-industrialized countries have a problem with earthquakes Gil. 12:53:51 PM Amy Sebring:Fred, still with us? 12:54:23 PM Amy Sebring:John, let's try your comment/question. 12:54:55 PM JD Anderson:I'm interested in evacuations as they pertain particulalry to fire....... 12:54:57 PM fkrimgold:International deployments have been organized or coordinated through the UN. There are coordiators for Asia(Japan) the WesternHemisphere(US) and Europe and Africa(Germany) There is also quite a lot of international cooperation in development and training. There is an organization of the US&R teams of the CIS and Eastern European countries. There is a major effort to develop in country capability in hazard prone areas. 12:55:26 PM Amy Sebring:Thank you Fred. 12:55:31 PM Amy Sebring:continue please John. 12:55:32 PM JD Anderson:Recently, in Florida......40K people had to be moved out 12:55:48 PM JD Anderson:And in canada.....8K people were removed 12:55:53 PM JD Anderson:in the face of fire 12:56:17 PM JD Anderson:What, if anything, is the interface between evacuation personnel and S&R? 12:56:48 PM Amy Sebring:Yes, that is a good point John, also early warning would pertain as well. 12:57:20 PM Rick Tobin:Rick ? 12:57:43 PM Amy Sebring:In the case of terrorist bombings, it would be difficult to provide any warning and evacution. 12:57:54 PM Amy Sebring:Fred, do you have a comment on John's question. 12:58:10 PM JD Anderson:I represent interests which have the world's largest water bombing aircraft......naturally, we don't wanrt to hurt anyone with the liquids 12:58:21 PM JD Anderson:on urban interface fires 12:58:40 PM Amy Sebring:We have questions from Kevin, Isabel, and Rick waiting... 12:58:47 PM Amy Sebring:and then we will wrap it up for today. 12:59:40 PM fkrimgold:US&R began with a very narrow mission: saving victims in collapled structures. Since that beginning it has been appropriate to expand the mission to include work related to other disaster impacts which would benefit from the the skills of the teams. Evacuation is not a primary job of US&R teams but they are organized self supporting and available. 12:59:56 PM Amy Sebring:Kevin pls. 01:00:02 PM Kevin Farrell:All of the FEMA USAR teams that I'm aware of are based in urban areas, however I know of highly skilled technical rescue folks that are in more rural locales. Has there been any effort to tap some of these non-urban resources? 01:00:23 PM Kevin Farrell:for the teams? 01:02:22 PM fkrimgold:The Task Forces require a significant management capability and a lot on local support. Major Urban areas are the ones with that capasity. Many individual specialists are brought in for special skills on most of the Task Forces. 01:02:36 PM Amy Sebring:Isabel... 01:02:38 PM Isabel McCurdy:Do you know what type of mask would prevent the inhalation of dust? 01:04:11 PM fkrimgold:this is very tough. People can't wear masks in anticipation of an earthquake. Generally, any cloth or effort to protect airways may help. 01:04:30 PM Amy Sebring:And finally, Rick please. 01:04:45 PM Rick Tobin:Has any USAR team looked into the Y2k problems associated with their equipment, e.g., oxygen monitors with embedded chips, etc? 01:06:14 PM fkrimgold:I really don't know. That question should be raised with FEMA ( Russo) or with NASAR which is in touch with all the Task Forces. 01:06:24 PM Amy Sebring:Thank you so much Fred. 01:06:33 PM Amy Sebring:Especially for hanging in there with us... 01:06:44 PM Amy Sebring:when the rest of the world is being deployed it seems. 01:07:02 PM Amy Sebring:Thank you audience also for hanging in here with us. 01:07:09 PM Amy Sebring:Avagene, next week? 01:07:11 PM Avagene Moore:Thanks, Amy. Next week, join us for the Round Table on Tuesday, Sept 29, 1:00 PM EDT and in the Technical Arena on Weds Sept 30, 12:00 Noon EDT when Mark Whitney, FEMA Mitigation Directorate, presents a session on Spatial Data and GIS in the EM Lifecycle. 01:07:25 PM Avagene Moore:Thanks, Fred. This was rough on you. 01:07:33 PM Amy Sebring:(Assuming HE doesn't get deployed!) 01:07:35 PM fkrimgold:Glad to have been here. Sometimes it helps not to be to close to operations. 01:07:43 PM JD Anderson:Let's hear it for Fred~! 01:07:53 PM Amy Sebring:Ok, let's head on over to the Virtual Forum room, if you like... 01:07:53 PM Isabel McCurdy: 01:07:57 PM Avagene Moore:I am glad I am not close to any of it right now. 01:07:58 PM Amy Sebring:for some open discussion. 01:08:07 PM Terry Storer:I'd likt to say "Keep Safe" to VA-1 and MD-1 as they deploy to P.R. and the Virgin Is. 01:08:10 PM Kevin Farrell: 01:08:15 PM Amy Sebring: 01:08:24 PM JD Anderson:yaaaaaaayyyy 01:08:37 PM Musse:Hi 01:08:43 PM Amy Sebring:Good thought Terry. 01:08:55 PM Gil Gibbs:Great presentation!!!